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ourfairview
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PostSubject: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:21 pm

this topic seems to be popping up alot more lately!

i know its pretty common in some parts of the world but as yet havent known anyone whos actually done it in england.

whats peoples views on this

for me id have to say a big fat NO! no way would i put a pup through a operation for something that may not ( hopefully) ever happen, it does seem those who do it choose to do it at a early age.....

cheri
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Bonnie's Mum

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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:35 pm

Hi Cheri ..... well here goes with my first post
this is the one subject that we needed advice on and we were pointed in your direction by a fellow breeder who recommended your site so here i am ....... when we got Bonnie we were advised to have a gastropexy done along with neutering ....... obviously to prevent bloat/torsion ... we have had so much conflicting advice that we dont know what to do now .... we do want her neutered eventually as we are not intending to breed from her (I haven't got the room for so many dogs that size!!!!) but even this op ha had differing advice ..... some saying from 6 months nd others to wait until she is 18 months old as hormones play an important part in her growth and development.
any views on these ops would be really really appreciated
Gill
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KazzF

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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:45 pm

From personal experience, I would just like to remind people that stitching the stomach to the chest wall DOES NOT stop a dog
bloating. It can stop the stomach twisting, but the dog can still die of bloat, as was the case of our Bernegardens Daffodil (Daffy to
her friends). When she bloated for the 2nd time, she was sadly dead before the vet could do anything and that was all within 30 minutes
of her showing signs, despite her having gastropexy. So, no, I would not have this surgery done routinely.

Karen x
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ourfairview
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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:49 pm

ive already said im against the preventative bloat op..........

as for spaying a bitch so young IF you were buying from me and told me you planned to spay at 6 months i simply WOULD NOT let you have a puppy! i strongly feel it isnt needed so early and that the bitch needs to have time to grow and mature first.

of course if there are medical reasons for your girl to be done early then fine if not id let her have one if not 2 seasons first

THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL VIEWS!!!!
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Saint



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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:37 pm

I too have heard of this gastropexy operation that " supposely" Prevents Bloat . I personally am strongly against it , and would never sell a puppy to someone who would do this to be honest ! Regarding neutering , 6 months old is way too young . I personally believe the dog would want to be over 18 months and had a least 1 season

Sandra
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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:56 pm

Like Karen, we have had the unfortunate experience of a bloat & a full twist.

Whilst operating on my girl, I asked our vet about the attachment of the stomach to the abdomen as I had heard this helps stop a future twist. His comments interested me. He said he would do it if I wanted, but its not a procedure he would want to do. The reasons he gave i found acceptable & reasonable. He said that whilst it may help stop a future twist, it doesn't necessarily mean the stomach couldn't twist again if under severe pressure, & could 'detach' itself from the abdomen (or ribcage if thats where it has been attached to as some have done). If this were to happen, not only have you a bloat/twist to deal with, but also an internal bleed/wound from the abdomen where the stomach has come away, therefore causing further complications which he has had to deal with on dogs where this procedure had been done. I opted not to have the stomach stitched & he untwisted her & stitched her up. Unfortunately she did go on to have further bloats over the next few months (no twists!) & we lost her.

As for this procedure to be done routinely i am in my horrors!! & for it to be suggested by someone in the UK on a puppy is in my opinion ridiculous. I have heard, like others, it is done in the USA as a preventative measure, but any operation on a dog is risky let alone in an emergency, so why put the dog under undue stress for it if its not an emergency? The old saying 'if its not broke, why fix it' springs to mind.

As for a neuter/spey on a dog under 18months ... need i answer that one!!

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islamorada

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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:01 pm

I sadly have had personal experience of bloat and hope that I never have to see this horrible condition again. That said, I would not consider putting any pup/dog through major surgery as a possible preventative measure.

I do have one girl that had a gastropexy 15 months ago at the same time as life-saving surgery following a full torsion. I have read quite a lot on the subject and the statistics tell me that the rate of recurrence falls from around 50% to 5% following gastropexy so I think having the procedure done at that time was the right thing to do.

My question to Bonnie's breeder would have to be that if bloat is such a concern to you that you recommend preventative gastropexy, should you not just stop breeding from lines which you feel are carrying this condition ?
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pollaton

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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:57 am

I know they say prevention is better than cure, but as with human healthcare it is proven time and time again that it doesn't work, hence the reason why they stopped routinely removing tonsils & adanoids and apendixs' along with god knows whatever other parts of the human bodies they used to randomly remove. I would definitely say, my own preventative measures are feeding from a height, leave a gap between exercising and feeding, not allowing excessive water drinking. surely thats a better option than a full blown operation, where animals can die just from the anaesthetic.
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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:07 am

Jackie- thats what i was thinking if the lines bloat alot then why breed from them???

i dont know who the breeder is but i just cant see any logic in it either way- breeding from "bloaters" Embarassed or operating on a pup! neither makes much sence

i should clarify when i said a season or two i meant at least 18 months old before spaying! ( i should be more clear esp as my own girls have seasons normally every 4 months)


cheri
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Chasidyz

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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:38 am

I'm all for preventative care, but not when it's a risky surgery, and in my opinion, any surgery is risky!

I don't know a ton on the subject (and didn't even know it was commonly done in the US), but I would never choose it for my dogs unless it was necessary or guaranteed to prevent a recurrence, should torsion ever be an issue.

There are other ways to prevent bloat. While there is debate about elevated feeding (some believe it allows more air to enter the dog's stomach and is unnatural), you can feed wet food (it's less likely to expand in the stomach), prevent exercise at least 1 hour before and 1 hour after a feeding, and be sure to know the signs so you can recognize it and act quickly, because, as someone else mentioned, bloat can strike a dog down rather quickly (sometimes within minutes of showing symptoms). Also, make sure to have a veterinarian that is well able to recognize and treat bloat on standby, any time of day (or know of a good clinic to go to).

I believe there was another long post about recommended ages of spay/neuter somewhere on this board, so you may want to check that out. The opinions differ, and there's an interesting difference in opinion based on location!
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Bina

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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:08 pm

Our first swissy had a torsion at age 10 years! We saw him, he had operation and he lived 1 more year after that! We saw, that he had torsion, because he was living and sleeping in house! If he would be outside, nobody would hear him... If this would happened during our traveling around Europe, nobody could help him...
After operation he had problems for almost 1 week, he was weak, he was at clinic for 1 day... we payed around 1.200 eur for operation (it was during night and prices are higher for 50%)...
on other hand, if you do operation (shewing a stomack), when dog is healt, in perfect condition, he will get better really soon (after 1 day), he doesn't need to be on clinic, operation is done during night and price is only 200 eur. And if you do it at around 18 months, you can do at same time also x-rays of hips and elbows.
So, I'm not against operation! Not at age 6 months, but later, when dog is adult.

I don't know bloating of stomack, I know only torsion. After having this at our dog (it was really horrible), I prefer operation before torsion... perhaps with some other operation (sterilization for example).
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PostSubject: Re: preventitive surgery for bloating torsion etc   Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:14 am

I think I'm also against this operation. It is just a waste of time and money because it does not fully prevent bloatment.
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