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Doline

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PostSubject: litter sizes   Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:17 pm

I was wondering what other breeders's experiences are regarding litter sizes?

I'm under the impression that some 'lines' do big litters, and other small. Once a bitch is in the 1-5 litter size group, she always tend to have litter in this category, and so does her offspring, or if they are in the 6-14 size, she always produce in this category (and her offspring), though with less pups as they get older.

Is this your experience as well or not?

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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:52 pm



daisy is out of 13 , she has produced a litter of 10 and a litter of 5

dora is out of a litter of 13 she produced one litter of 4 with one pup born dead

dory from the same litter as daisy and dora has been mated to 3 different proven dogs and has had no puppies


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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:38 pm

my 2 stbernard sister were from a litter of 10.
1girl whelping 11
the other girl whelp 12 then 14
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Doline

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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:05 pm

And do you think litte size and mating 'timing' has something to do with each other? e.g was litter sizes bigger if the bitch was mated closer to the end of eastrus (considering a bitch doesn't ovulate at once, but a few eggs every day for 3-5 days)?

Thus: Small litters when bred at the beggining of a season, and bigger litters if matings was done towards the end of the season?
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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:26 pm

dora who had 4 puppies was mated twice a day for 8 days
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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:28 pm

by the way we started mating dora on day 8 of her season which is when she was standing for the dog she was never made to do it which in some peoples eyes would mean she was ready as she was happy to stand- and the dog willingly did his job for the 8 days on the 9th day the dog walked in the house sniffed dora and went back outside- he had no plans of mating her again- did he know she was over or did he know she was pregnant we will never know!
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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:34 pm

we would normally test as you know

but dora and dory have been tested each time and still had no pups so we diceded to let the dog do his thing as and when he was ready - dora also stood well everytime for him as she knew him and likes him- with a nervy bitch i really think that helped huges amounts

both bitches were tested at every mating and missed to proven stud dogs - diesel was unproven BUT dora loves him i do wonder if that helped more than we think - rather than a mating with a dog she didnt know or like
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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:59 pm

love your "mr sperm" explanation!

all mine were covered by antibiotics and dory had the herpes jab aswell!
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Doline

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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:43 pm

I'm not the 'pro' on this subject, the facts that I have is that the serum oestrogen concentration during oestrus rapidly decreases and the progesterone (also produced by the ovaries) concentration increases. Luteinizing hormone (LH) serum concentration increases approximately one to two days after the onset of oestrus and this increase initiates ovulation within 24 to 48 hours and the formation of the corpora lutea. Ovulation occurs over a 24 to 96 hour period during which immature ova are released. Primary oocytes require an additional 24 to 48 hours to mature and are then viable for fertilization for an additional 24 hours.

So my understanding is that though ovulation occure 24-48 hours after the LH surge, the actual ova will be release over a period of a couple of days. As they grow/ripen and different speeds.
Furthermore not all the ova may have been fertilized at the same time (some may have been fertilized during subsequent matings, and once they were ripe) the tubo-uterine junction through which the blastocysts will pass to enter the uterus will not open until approximately 10 days following the LH surge. Therefore, although some of the blastocysts (or embroys) may be older than others, all will migrate to the uterus usually between days 12 to 16 and implant in the uterus at the same time usually around day 20.

This is also the reason pregnancy detection (eather by Palpation or blood tests or sonars) cannot be earlier, as the 'link' with the mother is only created around day 20.

Therefore my logic tells me that it might make a difference to rather do an earlier mating then a later one, or better even, every second day to get atleast 2 or 3 matings as ova remain viable for 2 to 3 days, and normal healthy sperm, delivered by natural insemination can live in the reproductive tract for at least 5 to 6 days. Thus successful conception may occur if a bitch is bred from 2 days prior to ovulation to 4 days after ovulation.

Am I making any sense?

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Doline

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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:21 pm

True

I think it boils down to: if there's only 2 eggs, there's only 2 eggs. If there's 15, there's 15, but one just need to make sure you 'catch' al 15 then!!!
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Doline

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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:43 pm

And my biggest worry -finding homes for 15 babys (Plus names !!!)
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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:40 am

hehehehehehe love it! pray she got 15 teats!!!! soooo funny!!!
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PostSubject: Re: litter sizes   Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:22 pm

btw

daisys litter of ten was from a dog who was in a litter of 2 just him and his sister

i do know every litter he produced was a decent size from 9 to 14 puppies

cheri
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